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one is doma, defense of marriage act. this administration won't defend it in the courts. if that gets struck down, what does that say to cases where people have been allowed to marry in the same gender. what happens if doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4, whatever. >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone. >> what would it mean to a person married? >> that would bemean couples married in those states would be recognized by the federal government. would mean we still have a lot of work to do and depending how they rule in the prop 8 case we still need other states to move forward with the right to marry. >> an honor to have you on and elizabeth, glad to have you back in a much bigger studio now. the republican establishment at war with his crazy wing, said they lost election because i ideologues pulled mitt romney too far to the right. wrong says the right ring, we lost because mitt romney wasn't right wing enough. the winner will determine whether the gop returns to the center or becomes a more fringy party. >>> two people get in the room. the p
one is doma, defense of marriage act. this administration won't defend it in the courts. if that gets struck down, what does that say to cases where people have been allowed to marry in the same gender. what happens if doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4, whatever. >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone. >> what would it mean to a person married? >> that would bemean couples married in those states would be recognized by the federal government....
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what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear. >> it would depend how the court rules in that case. >> if the court reaches the question of full faith and credit, what that is, utah must recognize the marriage laws of california, then, yes -- >> but you'd still be getting your social security checks, wouldn't you? >> it's not clear -- >> let's go back to a clear case. if prop 8 -- if the decision by the 9th, if the decision to strike that down, if that is upheld, where do we stand? what does that do? is equality then the law of the land? is marriage equality the law of land? >> it would d
what doma says is two things. one state does not have to recognize the marriage law, same-sex marriage law, of another state. that would be struck down and then there would have to be another test as to full faith and credit. >> if you move from california to utah and you're getting the recognized marriage in california but not in utah, but in utah living in salt lake city you'd be able to get social security benefits and all the federal stuff. >> you would -- it's not clear....
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what happens it doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4 or whatever? >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone obviously. >> what would it mean to a gay person who is married? >> that would mean that couples who are married in those states as well as the district of columbia, their marriages would be recognized by the federal government. now, it would mean we still have a lot of work to do, and depending on how they rule in the prop 8 case, we would still need other states to move forward with the right to marry. >> right. >> thank you. it's an honor to have you on and your organization. elizabeth birch, we are in a much bigger studio. >>> the republican establishment is at war with its crazy wing. they say they lost the election because ideologues pulled mitt romney foo far to the right. that sounds reasonable. wrong says the right wing. we lost because mitt romney wasn't right wing enough. the winner of this little tango will determine whether the gop moves to the center where it might find some votes or becomes an even more fri
what happens it doma gets struck down by the court, 5-4 or whatever? >> the ridiculously named defense of marriage act would be gone obviously. >> what would it mean to a gay person who is married? >> that would mean that couples who are married in those states as well as the district of columbia, their marriages would be recognized by the federal government. now, it would mean we still have a lot of work to do, and depending on how they rule in the prop 8 case, we would still...
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so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of an equal protection question. the request he is will the court be ahead of where the public is or behind the public. this is a question that eventually sooner or later, probably sooner, the public will come around to recognize and already is showing by the polls that marriage equality should be considered a fundamental constitutional right. >> professor peterson, to julian's point, despite its rulings on the president's health care law, on immigration, this court maintains a conservative tilt. is this necessarily good news for supporters of same-sex ma
so i think that doma law goes by the wayside. the second question is an equal protection question and goes specifically at the california referendum which -- >> the proposition 8. >> the proposition, proposition 8, which makes it illegal under california law to have gay marriage. they will look at that under the equal protection clause. i think it's a little bit hazardous to anticipate where the court will go on that question, and i would be reluctant to do that, but that's kind of...
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>> the doma case is a much more easy case. all it does is to return congress to its original position of following whatever states say the definition of marriage are. so it was crafted because it's a movement. they tend to be pro-state's rights and the liberals are pro-gay so arguing towards the middle, these are justice kennedy's favorite things. that's clearly a fifth vote for this case. we assume. so i think everyone imagined everyone since appellate court struck it down, that it leads to the supreme court to review the case. everyone thought they would take the case. i think they are going to do the right thing and strike it down. the other case is much more complicated. the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says the
>> the doma case is a much more easy case. all it does is to return congress to its original position of following whatever states say the definition of marriage are. so it was crafted because it's a movement. they tend to be pro-state's rights and the liberals are pro-gay so arguing towards the middle, these are justice kennedy's favorite things. that's clearly a fifth vote for this case. we assume. so i think everyone imagined everyone since appellate court struck it down, that it leads...
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ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot of benefits that come from the federal tax code, that people who get married need to enjoy if you're going to have a fair and equitable situation in society. so i think they made a big step forward here. and, you know, the court is a hard place to read. unfortunately, it's not like the election. well don't have nate silver to read every morning to tell us how it's going to turn out. but we'll all be watching closely. >> chris, there is a third issue that the justices haven't taken up yet, and that's an arizona law that bars some same-sex spouses from access to state benefits. where do we go on that? what
ruling in favor of the arc of history and civil rights, given the fact that they're taking up both doma and prop 8. i wonder where you think roberts fits into all this. >> based on some of the other decisions he has made, i don't think he is quite as conservative as some people think. i think taking up the doma case is really important because we really need to have the defense of marriage act struck down. marriage in the states is great. but at the end of the day, there is an awful lot...
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, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the nurse that answered the phone has apparently taken her own life. there's fallout for the deejays. the royal family is weighing in on what happened. we have a live report ahead. aches, fevers. and i relieve nasal congestion. overachiever. [ female announcer ] tylenol® cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion. nyquil® cold and flu doesn't. >>> the fight for a baby girl. the father says the mother never told him she was giving it up for adoption. will the adoptive parents give her up? that's the question. a judge has ruled. we'll tell you what happened when we continue. >>> tonight, "360" following
, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the...
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>> well, the challenge here to doma really is that only this provision in doma is unconstitutional as applied to legally married same-sex couples. the argument is that that provision discriminates against them by treating them differently from legally married opposite sex couple its. so if the court found in favor of edie windsor as the lower federal appellate court here did t would not affect any state's law that prohibits same-sex marriage so this is more of a yes or so no question, there aren't as many options as there are with the california prop 8 case for the court. >> warner: very briefly, the court did also raise so called standing issues in each one is it fair to say if they rule on these standing issue these could be incredibly narrow rulings. >> they could. the standing questions have to do with whether parties including the united states government are properly before the court in these cases. if the court finds that they are not properly before them the court will never even get to the marriage. the cases will be dismissed. >> warner: marcia, thank you so much. >> my plea
>> well, the challenge here to doma really is that only this provision in doma is unconstitutional as applied to legally married same-sex couples. the argument is that that provision discriminates against them by treating them differently from legally married opposite sex couple its. so if the court found in favor of edie windsor as the lower federal appellate court here did t would not affect any state's law that prohibits same-sex marriage so this is more of a yes or so no question,...
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the high court today decided to hear two appeals, one involving doma, the federal defense of marriage act, and the other, a challenge to california's proposition 8 which took away the right for gays and lesbians to legally wed in the state of california. now, the court's expected to hear arguments in march with a ruling by late june, and the decision to take on the issue comes just weeks after voters in three more states approved same sex marriage. no one knows more about the supreme court than our cnn legal analyst, jeffrey toobin. how big a dl is this? put it in perspective. >> this is a major event in american history, not just court history because same sex marriage now is at the center of the american legal world. this was a cause that was seen as a fringe issue as recently as the '90s. >> it wasn't even mentioned as a possibility. >> it was not even mentioned. polling has gone from approximately 20% to 30% support in the '90s, now gallup polls showed 53%, exit polls showed 49%. it now appears to command close to a majority support and now the supreme court may decide that same s
the high court today decided to hear two appeals, one involving doma, the federal defense of marriage act, and the other, a challenge to california's proposition 8 which took away the right for gays and lesbians to legally wed in the state of california. now, the court's expected to hear arguments in march with a ruling by late june, and the decision to take on the issue comes just weeks after voters in three more states approved same sex marriage. no one knows more about the supreme court than...
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the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have same-sex marriage to require them to have same-sex marriage. i don't think that's going to happen. i think there's many weigh stations between 0 and 50. for example, the court could look at this and say there are a bunch of states, eight states that say we're going to give you the rights and benefits of marriage but we're going to withhold the word marriage. the court can look and say you're worried about is brand. all you're saying is if you let gays into marriage that's going to diminish the brand. we're going to strike that down. we're going to add those s
the doma case doesn't affect any state decisions. where the perry case, the outcome -- >> that's the prop 8 case in california. >> exactly. thank you for helping me out there. the perry case says there's this definition passed by a ballot initiative in 2008 that says that marriage is between one man and one woman. if the the supreme court goes broad on that and says there's a fundamental right for same-sex couples to marry, that could flip the remaining 41 states that don't have...
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the supreme court is taking up a prop 8 and a doma case. does the president need to take a stronger stance on this now? >> i think he should. both on the substance and the politics. the constitution clearly states every american has equal rights under the law. that includes the right for loving committed couples to get married. it's a no brainer. on the pollices, as you said, that 53% support, it shot up ten points in two years. america is at a tipping point on this issue. you are right about the young people. they are going to be the majority of the electorate over the next two presidential cycles. they are already a voice in a n. it's all upside for the president and the democrats. >> erin, i'm going to get you to weigh in after the break on the president's legacy on this issue. >>> and the must-reads, the picks after this. citracal slow release continuously releases calcium plus d with efficient absorption in one daily dose. citracal slow release. with efficient absorption in one daily dose. is bigger than we think ... sometimelike the f
the supreme court is taking up a prop 8 and a doma case. does the president need to take a stronger stance on this now? >> i think he should. both on the substance and the politics. the constitution clearly states every american has equal rights under the law. that includes the right for loving committed couples to get married. it's a no brainer. on the pollices, as you said, that 53% support, it shot up ten points in two years. america is at a tipping point on this issue. you are right...
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, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the nurse that answered the phone has apparently taken her own life. there's fallout for the deejays. the royal family is weighing in on what happened. we have a live report ahead. capella university understands businesses are trying to come back from rough economic times. employees are being forced to do more with less. and the need for capable leaders is greater than ever. when you see these problems do you take a step back, or do you want to dive right in? with a degree in business from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to go further in your career than you ever thought possible. let's get started at
, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the...
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is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's a heavy judicial pile of precedent here from the lower courts. the only question remains is one of standing. but i think that it really is losing steam. the questions going to be holings worth and whether they leave this question to states like california. and that could be a really painful decision if it goes the wrong way. saying it violated the rights of
is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's a heavy judicial pile of precedent here from the lower courts. the only question remains is one of standing. but i think that it really is losing steam. the questions going to be holings worth and whether they leave this question to states like california. and that could be a really painful decision if it goes the wrong way....
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, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the nurse that answered the phone has apparently taken her own life. there's fallout for the deejays. the royal family is weighing in on what happened. we have a live report ahead. i'm doing my own sleep study. advil pm® or tylenol pm. the advil pm® guy is spending less time lying awake with annoying aches and pains and more time asleep. advil pm®. the difference is a better night's sleep. ♪ you can stay in and like something... ♪ [ car alarm deactivates ] ♪ ...or you can get out there with your family and actually like something. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our be
, the four democratic -- the four democratic members of the court will vote to allow -- to overturn doma, to allow california to have same-sex marriages. i think anthony kennedy, as is often the case, will be the swing vote. >> jeff toobin, thanks very much. >>> tragedy after a prank call makes headlines. this is such an awful story. a pair of australian shock jocks, deejays, whatever you want to call them, got through to the ward treating katherine, the duchess of cambridge. the...
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the other case called windsor versus doma originated in new york and challenges the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act. we're going to talk about this a little bit more this morning, and we'll have our legal contributor paul callan discuss it with us right after this break. i always wait until the last minute. can i still ship a gift in time for christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express by december 22nd for christmas delivery. up high! ok. don't you have any usefull apps on that thing? who do you think i am, quicken loans? ♪ at quicken loans, our amazingly useful mortgage calculator app allows you to quickly calculate your mortgage payment based on today's incredibly low interest rates... right from your iphone or android smartphone. one more way quicken loans is engineered to amaze. ♪ home of the legendary grand prix circuit. the perfect place to bring the all-new cadillac ats to test the 2.0-liter turbo engine. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ derek ] 272 horsepower. the lightest i
the other case called windsor versus doma originated in new york and challenges the constitutionality of the defense of marriage act. we're going to talk about this a little bit more this morning, and we'll have our legal contributor paul callan discuss it with us right after this break. i always wait until the last minute. can i still ship a gift in time for christmas? yeah, sure you can. great. where's your gift? uh... whew. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. ship fedex express...
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is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts say i saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's
is doma doomed? >> i think it is. there are four district courts say i saying it violated the rights of gay and lesbian couples. there are two court of appeals. so there's
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. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have thousands of federal benefits. the case before the supreme court involves a woman who had to pay $363,000 in estate taxes she wouldn't have had to pay just because the person she was married to was the same gender as herself. it's fairness but limbed to that one state. >> patricia, always good to see you. thanks for weighing in. >> thank you. >> the deadline for the fiscal cliff is just over three weeks away. lawmakers are still mired in part in gridlock, each side saying the other is to blame. what do their constituents think? cnbc says 21% would blame the president, 23% blame republicans, 52 blame ea
. >> the other case involves doma, defense of marriage act. what's at the heart of that question? >> not the fundamental right of same-sex marriage but whether the federal government can define marriage in a certain way, as between one man and one woman. historically that's been the job of the states to decide what marriage is, to define it. that really is the federal government stepping somewhere where it hasn't before. what they have done with that statute is say people can't have...
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the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that whole scenario. also remember, a lot of businesses who whether it be say wedding photographers, wedding deejays, bank gbank get hauls wo may not be catering to same-sex marriages, they have been attacked very often by lawsuits because they may not necessarily be catering to same-sex marriages. saw this over in new mexico with elaine photography when a photographer said i don't care to photograph same-sex marriage ended up being sued. this lawsuit is still going on right now. >> jimmy williams, welcome back. just explain to me. i'm sure there's a l
the end of the doma act. how do you see this? >> one of the first things that usually comes to my mind when i think about prop 8 was that you had the people of california, they looked at having this particular law upheld as simply because they're the ones who wanted it to happen. and the courts there decided no forget about it. it's simply not going to happen. not only that but if you remember, the donors who were supporting this law, they had a lot of people come after them during that...
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so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government is meddling with the state definitions of marriage. with respect to the prop 8 case, i think again kennedy, because of these two cases i mentioned, is likely to be sympathetic but may be incremental. he may say something along the lines of one state or eight states have to flip. i don't think he'll flip all 41. >> we always appreciate your valuable insight. we hope you'll stick around for the next few months and continue to provide that as we wade through what is undoubtedly going to be a fairly complex case, as well. good saturday to you, sir. thank you for your time. >>
so with a doma case, it's like justice kennedy's most favorite things. because justice kennedy loves state power. >> loves state's rights. ? and he loves gay rights because of the 1996 case and the 2003 case, both of which he authored the opinion that upheld the rightings of lgbtv individuals. the doe ma case is like the perfect convergence of those two strands so, that's why i'm so confident about the doma case because it's a state's rights case in the sense that the federal government...
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recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the most powerful justice is likely to determine the outcome. this is like the guessing game as to what is kennedy going to do. because he had obviously the things everybody talks about two really favorable gay rights rulings then he has other legal views that might conflict with this. do we have his cell phone number? could i give him a call? >> sure. >> stephanie: what you thinking about? what you doing? why are you so distant? you know what i started hoping over the weekend that all of the justices have a gay something. relative friends somebody they really
recent public opinion shows americans no longer support doma. one 12 poll revealed americans favored by 51% to 34%. anyway so then basically they're saying what everybody is saying predicting how prop 8 is going to come out however is tougher. blah, blah, blah we clearly established right to same-sex marriage is harder. for starters, it is likely to divide 5-4 as everybody is saying as they do on every important constitutional issue. on most other issues, justice anthony kennedy, probably the...
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doma denies federal benefits to legally married same-sex couples while prop 8 makes same-sex marriage illegal in california. same-sex marriages are legal in nine other states and the district of columbia. a decision on these cases is expected sometime in june. >>> korean pop star psy is making headlines for a whole other reason than you might think this morning. his music video may be the most watched video in youtube history, but now an old video from 2004 has surfaced of psy calling for the death of american soldiers in iraq. that performance resurfaced in october. in his apology, psy said his performance had been emotionally charged, and "while i'm grateful for the freedom to express oneself, there are limits. i am deeply sorry for any pain i have caused by those words." he is scheduled to perform at a charity event in washington. president barack obama is also planning on attending that event. >>> speaking of president obama, he's issuing a stern warning to syria. don't even think about using chemical weapons against civilians. i'll talk about the implications coming up next. [ ny
doma denies federal benefits to legally married same-sex couples while prop 8 makes same-sex marriage illegal in california. same-sex marriages are legal in nine other states and the district of columbia. a decision on these cases is expected sometime in june. >>> korean pop star psy is making headlines for a whole other reason than you might think this morning. his music video may be the most watched video in youtube history, but now an old video from 2004 has surfaced of psy calling...